Sarah Koenig jury to convict, it doesn’t mean we necessarily should ask them to do that. Yeah. You know what I mean, do you guys independently think feel like something went wrong here? But, I was more skeptical. Sarah Koenig Why does nothing, I don’t know and that I just go back to why can’t you account for this day, of all days. I think, too, when you keep going, what happens to me is that I reach a tipping point where I have answered questions to my satisfaction and I have answers for everything and my answers are better than law enforcement’s answers. Right, which-- I don’t know, a lot of lawyers say “oh, they’re all guilty, they’re all guilty.” I generally feel like, especially for most of my career, I was dealing with people-- I wasn’t a director at an innocence project-- and I had a very clear sense of which of my clients did what, and that’s because they told me. And I don’t know how she knows what laundry smells like. Deirdre Enright I called her and asked how she dealt with the cell records in the Justin Wolfe case and she was kinda so-so on that topic. He’s funny and he could totally be a sociopath. As for the rope, which, from a photo, looks sorta like a laundry line, it wasn’t tested at all, for anything. That I’m going to get through all this and be like, “I don’t know.” She’d been strangled. He’s had time to think about this. Context: "because in Adnan's case, I feel like from what I can tell, there's not gross negligence or malfeasance or something on the part of the detectives or the State Attorney's office, everyone seems to be doing their job, responsibly. So they put those up on a board in the courtroom and say “look at this. One story told week by week. 444 times. Did anyone else use the phone? Play Season One: Episode 07: The Opposite of the Prosecution Deirdre Enright Do you have that? All. I went down to Charlottesville to see how they were getting along. Sarah Koenig You discuss whatever it is you came to discuss full-on, looking it squarely in the face. Time. Sarah Koenig He’s funny and he could totally be a sociopath. Otherwise, you couldn’t function. There is a guy, there is a serial killer, there is somebody who is motivated, there is somebody who hated Hae. Once Deirdre and her students digest this massive amount of paper, the next step is decide what they’ve got on their hands. Sarah Koenig You can listen to the podcast in full here. Because you can’t help it, as a juror you figure the guy sitting behind the defense table must have done something wrong. That’s what we’re not seeing, is a lab report that says, if it came back, and that the other, being loosey-goosey about whether it’s not Jay, not Adnan, you know, that’s strange. Not because she’s above it or anything but because she actually has no time. You just didn’t--” Nobody’s really doing anything bad, people are trying to run down their leads and talk to people, but they don’t have enough to go forward but they do anyhow, right? If you're just landing here please go back and start with Episode 1 . The answer to that could definitely be no. Deirdre Enright Sarah Koenig I would just, at this point, knowing what I know, I would say, I guess I’d have to put him in the person of interest category because he was an old boyfriend. Actually Adnan mentioned the case to me, kind of in passing. Oh yeah, no for the first however many months thinking “oh yeah, of course it’s him. Deirdre Enright You know what I mean, do you guys independently think feel like something went wrong here? He's really. So is that something that you guys would want to get tested, that stuff? Sometimes it’s going to stay exactly the way it is and it’s unsatisfying. But he’s a really hard worker and he has a team and we just closed their case. What items did the group at The Innocence Project wish were tested. Well, I literally, I just thought of it when I was sitting here, thinking it’s a lot of legwork, if we had a team of five students, we could get those things done with people that are being supervised. She’s one of the busiest and most curious people I’ve ever met. In other words that he’s a Pakistani muslim and-- But, no, I do not see him as being guilty at this point. Very few times have I had a client-- and the ones who really did it and they have serious mental issues and they’re not sociopathy, they’re schizophrenia or florid psychosis, because of a whatever. Yeah, um, Adnan, I remember he was talking to a girl, he put me on the phone with her for three minutes. They never tested those cells for DNA. Deirdre Enright Or is this just like “well, we’re sort of humoring you, the reporter.” He’s really smart. And he is the evidence control unit person. She runs their Innocence Project clinic there, I called her and asked how she dealt with the cell records in the Justin Wolfe case. Sarah Koenig She gave me a couple of names to try. Episode 10: The Best Defense is a Good Defense. I just murdered him! Me? Sarah Koenig From This American Life and WBEZ Chicago it’s Serial. As a legal question, Deirdre says they should only have to prove Adnan isn’t their guy, he’s not the killer. I still don’t understand why you want this girl dead. It’s already there, on going, her thoughts churning, and you just kinda join in when you’re ready and hope that you can keep up. There is a guy, there is a serial killer, there is somebody who is motivated, there is somebody who hated Hae. Serial will follow one story – a true story – over the course of a whole season. He's really smart. Oh my god. It’s supposed to happen the first time around, at trial. So, I remember one day I had in there maps, to show him where the crime scene was versus where the lodge was versus where mile marker 42 point-- so I put this all out on a table and get my reading glasses and then I said so “when you would camp there, can you show me where you were?” and then he’s like “okay, well I didn’t camp there, I would ride bikes there,” and of course I’m like “okay, well whatever, that-- you know, who cares, whatever. You should have an answer!” She runs their Innocence Project clinic there. That’s we do is collect all the paper and then do exactly what they’re doing. So when I read what you’ve given me, I just think “you guys just don’t have it. Deirdre Enright Yeah, you’re -- It’s kind of a profound thing when you think about it. Deirdre Enright An environmentalist, especially one trying to protect forests. Episode 7 The Opposite of the Prosecution 6 November 2014 ... where you can find out about aspects of this case that were not covered by Serial, including original case files from both police and the defense, photos, trial transcripts, and ... then the answers get very general. I think, too, when you keep going, what happens to me is that I reach a tipping point where I have answered questions to my satisfaction and I have answers for everything and my answers are better than law enforcement’s answers. But what I’m saying is that that could happen here, in Adnan’s case. People break up with people all the time. That’s Deirdre. Sometimes I am totally with him and then other times I am like, “I don’t know dude, this doesn’t, why can’t you remember anything? I remember he had told my daughter he had seen the body of a girl in the back of some-- in the trunk of some vehicle. That’s my fear. Click on the highlights to read what others are saying. Because in our files, we have a lot of things, evidence they collected that got sent off and we don’t have reports for everything and we are curious about the results that we don’t have and whether or not those exist and just why they’re not in the files that we have. The cell phone thing for us and Justin Wolfe is that they used the cell phone records to say they cabin out the period of time when the shooter is driving to the place where the victim is and shooting him and then coming back. Sarah Koenig Learn vocabulary, terms, and more with flashcards, games, and other study tools. The good and the bad and whatever, and look at it with, an eyebrow up. If you'd like to add your own insights, comments, or questions to a specific line, highlight the relevant text and click on the button that pops up. I tell people all the time, you are juggling, and everything’s in the air, and you’re frozen. But, it’s very, very thin. But man on every other topic, I found her so helpful. But sure, if they wanted to take a look at the case on their own, of course I’d welcome that. Not at all. Maybe there’s a clue from another Baltimore cold case. Very few times have I had a client-- and the ones who really did it and they have serious mental issues and they’re not sociopathy, they’re schizophrenia or florid psychosis, because of a whatever. I’m Sarah Koenig. Deirdre Enright But it seems like no one in the profession really believes that it does. Maybe she has some tips about how we should be looking at the cell records differently, in Adnan’s case.”, Deirdre Enright, and she works at the University of Virginia School of Law. Do you have that? Wolfe’s trial attorney later gave up his law license, after the bar had initiated disciplinary charges against him for, and this is the technical term, being a crappy lawyer. No. I just think that the odds of him being that and no one having detected any signs of it until he kills his girlfriend who he’s moved on from, so-- I mean, I felt like I had been in that same mindset for so many months and I hadn’t found anything that absolutely tipped the scale in Adnan’s favor.
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