About the same time from start to finish. That really helped me get a sourdough starter going. By the end of the day, they had all peaked at around the same height but at different times. Try it both ways and see which you prefer. "Just keep in mind that the first days of the seed culture process have nothing to do with developing flavor or even fostering the most desirable species. The rest of the story probes deeper into how it all works. If you go to San Francisco hoping to find authentic gold-rush-era sourdough, you're not going to find it, not at Fisherman's wharf, not at Tadich Grill or any of the smaller bakeries. Content posted by community members is their own. just to keep it firsty against mold, but not dilute pH. What I gathered from the articles and from other reading I've done is that the 4 predominate yeast species in sourdough are dynamically linked to the flour type. Mold is the biggest stumbling block for procedures in which a young mixture is allowed to sit idle for two or three days at a time. Just as enzymes are stripped away in the milling of white flours, so is the biofilm on the surface of the grain. My first starter just up and went mouldy in the fridge, so I tossed that out and after a little surfing I found your very interesting and thorough articles, just fantastic. American Society for Microbiology Press, Washington, DC. I won't be able to judge the souring power/lactic-acid content until I actually bake with them. Sort of figure out the question behind the questions, because I think the answer starts with fundamentals that hopefully can clear up some of the confusion around sourdough. In few occasions, I also do papaya. This pattern suggests that wild yeasts are activated by low pH. But first, here is a recap of the key patterns revealed by notes and data collected during experimental trials: But it wasn't enough just to find a fix. Salt slows organisms, LAB more so than yeast. Lowering the pH in the initial mixture, by adding ascorbic acid or by replacing the water with pineapple juice, kept gas-producing bacteria from growing and brought about a more timely and predictable result. Your mention of wild yeast spore development was, for me, a most important missing element. (I've never had idli, but I would assume that it has a very unique flavor.) 2003. Again, what is best for the bread is not necessarily the same thing as what's best for the microorganisms. All I know is that I didn't have any success making starters at all until I switched from whole-wheat to all-purpose flour, using the same distilled water for each. -Debra Wink. I have just a few more questions and then I will leave you alone, probably, unless I come up with more questions. That is kind of deja vu-ish, because someone sent me some sourdough culture from San Fran one time and after using it I didn't like it either, I remember the resulting bread had a not very appealing sort of cheezy taste to it, and I couldnt imagine what the big attraction of genuine "SAN FRANSISCO" sourdough bread was. This leads me to think the LAB's, if any, weren't actively producing lactic acid. Mix flour and water up in about a 50/50 proportion in a ceramic or plastic bowl (2-3 cups is a good amount to shoot for). Even though Aerococcus doesn't produce gas, and so was not responsible for any of the expansion, it is not much of an acid producer either. This page was generated at 11:21 PM. So, what can we do instead to facilitate the process? A few hours after starting this there were some surface bubbles, but those could be air bubble from the flour rather than gas bubbles from CO2. but now I feel inspired (and confident) to branch out and experiment with my starter. Hi Debra, and thanks for thinking about this and your memory of a related situation. i was wondering if i could make my own sourdough with the wyeast (which is reportedly a bit rapid in beer fermentation; so, being that ale yeasts are generally less active then active dry yeasts and need longer rise times; compounded with sourdough rising slower; it figured good to find a rapid-ish fermenter, with a high temp limit, and produce diacetyl if not too high on that temp limit) and cheese yeasts, swiss, specifically, which needs a helveticus culture (or anything else ?) I needed some time to mull it over. I think this took about forty-eight hours at 30ºC in Vogel's study. Once again the power of the internet is imeasurable. bread, beer, wine, sake. This was with just plain water --- no pineapple juice. The starter goes through each phase laying the groundwork for the next phase. I am wondering why my sourdough bread increases in sourness even after I freeze it. Of course the critters who turned the flour and water into bread have long since shuffled off their part of this mortal coil by the time I am tasting my loaves. The diastatic-malt experiment, OTOH, started out very nicely. I've put in a link to a paper on Population Dynamics of yeasts in sourdoughs and one on Yeast Species Composition. The point to keep in mind is that active and dormant cells are physiologically and metabolically different, and so their needs are different. * Organic is not a requirement, nor does it need to be freshly ground. But, if at the same time you increase the feeding frequency, you can also acheive the opposite effect. spoiled milk. LAB stands for Lactic Acid Bacteria, which is a large group of bacteria that all produce lactic acid while fermenting sugars. I paid $12 for a one-pound bag of lactic-acid powder, plus $15 for a pH meter, $8 for calibration solution and another $2 for a jug of distilled water. It smells like wet flour. I don't let it sit out and grow for a time first, because I don't want it using up half its food supply right out of the starting gate---it could be in there a long time. Then I proceeded according to the plan. After that, I firmed them up at 1:3/4:/1/3 (flour to water to starter), let them double, and then put them in the refrigerator. I tried whole wheat and white whole wheat with no success in either case. This stuff is gold. I mean, if I refresh twice a day at room temperature can I expect that that LAB strain will appear sooner, after 6-7 days? For my last two bakes I refreshed the starter as usual, 8 hours before making up the dough. Fumaric acid is not found in a natural sourdough culture. You cited Lsan. Regarding the apparent delayed yeast growth (lactobacilli being the first to populate)...I wonder if perhaps the lactobacilli produce specific enzymes (maltose phosphorylase is one that I've seen mentioned) that are conducive to yeast growth. I probably have done my culture and therefore my final dough disservice by doing this. But not knowing exactly where they come from or what they need to become active, I'd only be speculating that you can hurry them along. And it's easier. The pineapple juice is really just to help get your starter going when creating it from scratch. I have gotten away from calling them spores, because technically speaking, I just don't know. for some amino acid or protien feed. Although I was there to take advantage of what he had to teach, pineapple juice did come up once.
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